Neil & i are enjoying church lately. The pastor is a 'real' guy ~ who loves Jesus, we're starting to get to know some of the other families a little better, & recently, i've started to get more involved in the music part of it & it's been fun for me to feel 'a part' of the congregation.
So, yesterday, the pastor was speaking about... here, i'll just post the scripture so you get the gist...
"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." (1 Cor. 7:4&5) ~ he spoke about the verses before this a bit & i'm not exactly sure how far he went, but the verses i've typed here are the main ones he focused on.
He spoke about some pretty important stuff ~ it was funny (as his sermons usually are...) & honest. i love how he emphasized the importance of just 'giving in' to our spouses ~ & intimacy as a ministry to our partner & not a tool for control. i love how he emphasized that God gave us a good thing when He designed marriage with physical intimacy in mind... & he did touch on the fact that through physical intimacy, God gives us children ~ & that's a good thing too.
As he was speaking though, i felt like there was a distinct separation between "intimacy" & "sperm". i know... maybe this is a little much for a blog that i know some people actually read... but, typing things out seems to help me process them better.
Is sperm just a messy by-product?
Did God create *the act* accidentally overlooking the detail, that if we're intimate, there'll be a part of this process that we'll have to 'take care of' either before, or during that act of intimacy to prevent what could possibly come of doing that act?
Does there need to be agreement between spouses about this part of intimacy? Does it count as 'depriving each other' ~ if the seed is purposefully withheld?
i know, the pastor said we're just talking about this *one* part of marriage ~ & that there are many many other aspects of marriage that are covered in the bible that we'll talk about at different times, in different sermons... but i'm left wondering, can you have a message about sex & avoid talking about sperm?
Are those 2 topics mutually exclusive? Or are they *intimately* tied to one another...
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Hmmm, that's a tough one and I don't even know where to begin to think on it. It's a biggie.
Are you getting pregnant/baby fever again? Or is this just past thoughts that still carry on...?
oh, no no... this isn't a personal post... just a cultural/church observation thing. i know that a century ago, the church (& most christians) vehemently opposed birth control ~ & i wonder if our shift away from that perspective has gained us anything ~ or cost us a great deal?
My personal belief is that God designed physical intimacy to be within the bonds of marriage to create strong families. (mal. 2:15)
Neil was laughing at me as i read him my little post, saying, 'you're the only person in that whole sanctuary who was thinking that!' & i reminded him that truth is not decided by a majority vote :)
i wish / hope that my posts come off as softly as i intend them to. More of a questioning of the status quo than a rant, i'd say...
Read your comments...thank you.
You asked about Bella and I will be ordering it tonight. You may borrow mine when it arrives, or I can get you a copy too.
Sorry...it posted three times, and I do not know why.
So I came to your blog today hoping you had blogged about this very topic...and whola!!
I'm with Neil that you probably were the only person thinking about sperm :) I love it though that you were. I was sitting right beside you wondering what was going on in that head of yours and now I know.
I foresurely (is that a word?) don't have an answer but it's an interesting perspective and something to think about.
I didn't get the necklace for Theo today :( Hopefully in tomorrows mail.
Have a good week.
hahaaa ~ i debated even writing this post 'cause i thought it might get read! But it's a point that i've often thought is worthy of more discussion than it receives :)
Hope you get your necklace soon for your little teething man! :)
I personally would vote for the choice to use birth control, if desired... It is preferrable to no intimacy whatsoever because one of the partners is worried that pregnancy might occur -- and when that goes on for very long, the fabric of the relationship frays and the isolation between husband and wife builds. After a while it all becomes insurrmountable and there is marriage breakdown. Sad... If you want a large family, don't use birth control and "try" to get pregnant. If you don't think you can handle six kids (or whatever the number) then use birth control. It's that simple. Sex is an adult activity and you know going into it that you could "get burned" playing with fire!!
Thinking about this post some more (see previous comment last night) -- yes, I think there has to be an agreement between partners regarding use of birth control or lack thereof. And yes, it would definitely be classed as "depriving" if the wife wanted to get pregnant with another baby and the husband refused to have sex unless he was using a condom. In that scenario, the wife would probably give in and have physical intimacy with the husband but be unfufilled because she wasn't given the opportunity to conceive, as desired.... On another topic, Oprah just had a show about women and their sexuality. She had a sex therapist on the show with diagrams of the woman's anatomy etc. Very educational. Said we have to be in touch with our own bodies in order to know what pleases us and how to guide our husband (partner) to do the same.
I was hoping you'd post something about this Paige. Its a topic i'm so interested in, and I know there are so many different opinions out there.
I was really hoping I would be touched on deeper, but I also found the sermon renewing for me as a wife.
I do have some agreeance with 'anonymous' that if both partners are in agreeance its probably better to be intimate with that sperm barrier than not be intimate at all. I think we all know how important intimacy is with or without the sperm...
Either way, you weren't the only one wondering about the sperm that day... hehe
Lisa
For the record... i'm not just talking about abstaining from birth control for the purpose of getting pregnant.
i remember that story in the bible about David & Bathsheba, after their child died, the bible says he "comforted her" and she conceived... i think there's so much more at play with hormones, & holding nothing back in intimacy.
This (secular) article is a pretty good example:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20021002-000009.html
Very thought-provoking post. I had never thought of it all that way before. And thanks for posting that link in the comments section, Paige...fascinating.
I love this idea Paige. One anonymous comment used the words "it's as easy as that!..." Marriage in general isn't 'as easy as that' never mind when there are separate and distinctive opinions on topics as sensitive and personaly connecting as sex. I admire when people can keep lines of communication open through years of differing oppinions though. That is to be admired. It's difficult, not easy, and it's also a beautiful thing when a marriage can pull and give without tearing.
Paige, for me it's not *sperm* that's the issue (or maybe i would just pick a different word :)...)
but a sermon like that is like someone talking about orchards, how it's so great to be an orchardist, with the pruning, and the walking through the beautiful rows of trees, the hard work and filtered sunlight, and just completely leaving out the aspect of fruit - that is why we have the orchards - and if we deny it, the fruit will fall and rot, and the trees will not bear as well as when the fruit is picked and enjoyed.
i think it is possible to write an essay about how much i love being in an orchard, but it will be very difficult to do while avoiding the word fruit :)... and it would make people think i was crazy to leave out, even the beautiful LOOK of the colorful fruit, their gorgeous shapes :)...
same with the fruit of the marital union - sex is meant to bond us, not only for our own good, to make two one, and by that bonding, to make that "one" a stable union for any FRUIT that comes - it's for the children's sake as much as it is for our sake, that we enjoy sex and the bonding aspect of it. Yes, it's for mutual comfort and delight, but the purpose is to bind us to *each other* as parents of any children. God desires Godly seed, and He is making our marriage a healthy, welcoming place by giving us the desire and delight in the act that leads to His creation of a new child... What bonds me to my husband is for my good, for my faithful heart to be renewed and refreshed, to feel desired and cared for (and for him to feel desired and cared for as well) - but the beauty of the act is not just in that it makes me feel good, any more than the purpose of food is to make our mouths tingle. Maybe some fruit will, but it's for a very prosaic reason that God has made food - to feed us! and because He's a good God and loves us, He also makes eating pleasurable, and full of excitement and new ideas and tastes.
i guess i feel that sermons like that tend to be so culturally minded that it leaves out the wonder of our creation and the character of God - just a sermon that will please the porno addict as well as any red blooded man in the congregation. church should convict the sinner and encourage the godly. this sermon basically says "get it on" without even looking at what it is and why God gives the directions He does.
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